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Saturday, July 05, 2008

The Turkish Male and the Subservient Woman

The Mosque Across the Road

As I sit here in Turkey waiting for my ship to come in, I am asking myself some startling questions! I don’t normally get all ‘deep’ about religion but sitting here in Turkey it crops up again and again!

Last night for example I did not close my window so at four thirty I was violently woken up by a call-to-prayer from the mosque across the road! I didn’t go but I must admit, even with the window closed and the pillow over my head it was hard not to go rushing across to stick my bum in the air!

Earlier I had been flicking through the channels of the television in my hotel room whilst sipping a strange mixture of Burgaz Raki (In Turkey, Raki is the unofficial 'national drink') and orange juice when a channel popped up with a skinny white-haired German pounding away at the behind of a maid in some motel in Atlanta – a full blue movie to say the least! I didn’t stay to watch, to see if the maid got caught or if the manager joined in as punishment, but it all seemed so out of place here. If I look out of the window of my hotel room I see the mosque, I see ladies covered from head-to-foot seemingly oblivious to the blinding heat as they walk past the hotel yet here in this room is all that a Muslim would hate.

The View from the English BarThe View from the English Bar

This afternoon I popped into a bar along the main street, aptly named the English Bar! I sat there sipping the local Turkish beer (Efes) whilst watching the world churn outside! I watched Muslims walk past, I watched Christians walk past and I watched Christians and Muslims walk past together - life in normal motion. Yet inside the bar were men only! Bars in Turkey are not for women! No bar in Turkey has a woman inside as this is the man’s domain!

A Day out at the Istanbul MarketA Market in Istanbul - A womans domain I fear!

I was walking around town this morning and ended up in the market, a Saturday affair that puts the local Ali Baba’s or Aladdin’s cave shops back home to shame! This was the real McCoy of markets yet no men were present apart from those selling the wares. This was the domain of the women, Christian and Muslim, Atheist and undecided, this was where the men stayed away and the women played!

And then it dawned on me what this is all about! Turkey manages to live in seemingly religious harmony, with Christians, Muslims and extras both applying their trade alongside each other because of one simple fact, that religion is all so unimportant! There is a bigger issue here that receives scant attention, that women are lower class subjects regardless of religious affinity!

I was having the hotel breakfast this morning, a scant affair of olives and boiled eggs, whilst watching the other guests around me! There was a (scantily) well-dressed women sitting at one of the tables and when her husband walked in she jumped up like a jack-in-the-box! I was quite shocked as her movement seemed so out of place in this otherwise calm environment. Anyway, she jumped up and ran to get a plate for her husband and whilst he pointed she placed onto his plate whatever he desired! An olive here, a boiled egg there!

This Turkish cultural tolerance is not about religion at all!

Should a women ever step foot in bar, be seen drinking in public or telling her man “to go a jump into the river” then problems will arise but as long as they keep their place then it matters not one wit about religion at all! Just keep those women subservient guys!

6 comments:

  1. Anonymous6:00 AM

    I read these as my mouth wide open out of the shock i am in.I'm Turkish and living in Istanbul for 10 years and except a couple of sentences the writer of this colomn is unaware of the lifestyle in Turkey.

    The right thing is the religions..Because when Turks conquered Istanbul, they were so tolerant to christians and let them teach/practice freely.And Jews were welcomed by the republic during WW2.They all still live here in together in peace.

    If a person says there are no women in bars, i say they never walked through one.Because i go every weekend with my girlfriends..
    And the more funny thing is,the writer says there are no men in markets,which i visit for fresh fruit and clothes sometimes,every week,as a man.

    Here everything is as it is supposed to be between men and women.They have equal rights and live upto that.

    Pls do not poison people's minds writing incorrect things about Turkey.

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  2. I was asked to comment on this blog from the perspective of an ex-pat living in Turkey.
    From reading this I get the distinct impression that this individual had a limited stint in Istanbul because I am shocked he never saw any women in bars.
    The majority of bar patrons are men, however, I think if you venture into a bar in any country the majority of the patrons will be men. When I go to the bar about 1/3 of the people present are women.
    Women in Turkey are not second class citizens, merely Turkish people adhere more closely to classically defined gender roles than most of the more western cultures of the UK, America, Australia, etc.
    Additionally, I think that it is a gross generalization to extrapolate from sight of women with their hair covered, a woman preparing a breakfast plate for her husband, and the prevalence of women at the weekly bazaars that women in Turkey lead lives similar to those of women during the dark ages.
    I have seen women in Spain encouraged by their husbands to dress conservatively, I have seen women in Italy prepare breakfast for their husband, often the majority of customers at the grocery store in America are women, does this make women all over the world subservient and repressed?
    I think if you want to see women in Turkey as repressed and subservient then you can find a plethora of examples to support that.
    In my opinion, women in Turkey are more willing to conform to gender roles than western women. However, the women here make a trade off, yes they do spend more time cleaning the house than their spouse, they do most of the shopping for their family yet in return their husbands lavish attention and affection on them unlike anything I have seen anywhere else. Overall, Turkish men vastly more visibly loving and openly affectionate than any men in my previous experience. Personally, I am willing to exchange a little house cleaning and shopping, which I would similarly have to do in most other locales, for goddess-esque treatment, unlike anything I have ever received from westernized men. I think most people would shocked how many western women come to Turkey and gladly make this exchange.
    I think Mr Dolby needs to visit Jordan for a little perspective!

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  3. Anonymous1:33 PM

    Hi Alex,

    This is earthling from yahoo answers.

    It was nice reading about your impressions. However I don't agree with this "Bars in Turkey are not for women! No bar in Turkey has a woman inside as this is the man’s domain!"

    This is really not correct. I'm a woman and I can go to bars with my male and female friends and have my drink.

    I don't know how long have you been in Turkey or if it's your first visit or not...but this sounds too quick a conclusion.

    However, I do completely agree with you on that women, no matter from what economical or social background, are treated as second class people.

    One final note, I'm not from Istanbul...but have been there so many times...and each time I go there I see/learn something new...for example it was shocking for me to see that people are least tolerant to people who don't fast in Ramadan there...or I feel less secure walking down the street in Istanbul..because I get hissed at more there.

    Thanks for the review. But I'd like to hear more from you...since you will have different opinions/impression as you spend more time there.

    See you,
    Earthling

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  4. Anonymous8:34 AM

    Hi, I'm gugu from yahoo answers.

    The English Bar Ieuan mentions is situated in the historical Sultanahmet area of İstanbul, which is a highly touristic place. Locals do not prefer to go there for dining or for a night out. That's probably why he didn't see any Turkih woman at the bar. But not seeing a woman at that bar at that date at that specific hour is not an accurate reason to claim that "Bars in Turkey are not for women". Alex is simply jumping into conclusions. Any non-touristic bar or night-club or disco or tavern in Turkey is full of Turkish women.

    Additionaly, even if there had been a Turkish woman at that bar, I am pretty sure that Alex would have confused her with a Christian woman because it is obvious from his remarks that he thinks all the Turkish women wear headscarves.

    Finally, it seems that he also misunderstood what he had witnessed during the breakfast at the hotel. Judging from the view of his hotel, I can easily say that his hotel is also at the touristic Sultanahmet area. So how does he know that the family he saw at the breakfast is Turkish. Tourists, not locals stay at those hotels. I am sure the lady who prepared the breakfast plate for her husband was also a tourist.

    Ieuan, if you want to see Turkish women in bars, next time go to Bağdat caddesi, Nişantaşı, Bebek, Beyoğlu, Galatasaray Adası.... And if you want to continue sharing your experiences, please be more open-minded, stay away from generalizations and do not jump into conclusions. Looking and seeing are different things.

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  5. Thanks all! I like a bit of reaction! What I noticed though in all of your "upset" about woman and Turkish bars is the fact that reference is made to a guy called Alex! I haven't a clue who he is?

    Furthermore, whilst woman maybe welcome or accepted in highly popular touristic locations in open-minded and central Istanbul this does not spread to the urban districts - as far as I have seen!

    Please note that I spent many a pleasurable time in Gemlik, in Pendik and Tusla and also in various outlying districts of Istanbul and during that time I visited many bars yet I never saw a woman in any of them! That is the fact that I base my opinion on!

    If a tourist to London was to base his whole opinion of the city upon a one-time visit to some seedy nightclub in downtown Soho then he would be wrong - as wrong as a tourist to Istanbul would be if he visited a bar with woman inside! Not representative of the place as a whole!

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  6. Istambul is gorgeous, its amazingly historical, the Bhosphorous sings to you, shares its tale if you let it. Just explore, a hotel is only for a night cap. :)

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